Friday, December 02, 2005

 

The Russians Are Coming!!! (again again)

Growing up in Apartheid South Africa, I was fed a steady mental diet of fear about "Them", i.e. Blacks, and "Communists". The Communists wanted to help "Them" kill us. It was as simple as that. The Communists wanted to kill all of "Us" because they were jealous. (Now where have I heard that recently?). Ah well.
It was only after I began actually speaking to some of these Blacks and Communists, that I realised these fears were pretty far from the truth. I've since had to revise that theory too. One just cannot deny the orgy of violence and crime in South Africa, and one cannot deny that it is black on white.
On his website Africancrisis.org a racist ex-Rhodesian Jan Lamprecht pulls no punches in pointing out the foibles of the South African government and the crimes of "Them". While I have no reason to doubt the veracity of his reports, his comments are blatantly racial, as if "They" are the only people in the whole world who rape "their" daughters, or commit corrupt acts in government. In Lamprecht's world there are no white criminals, no whites deal drugs, get involved in shootouts, rape, plunder or even litter. Only "THEY" do that.
In his latest "Southern African Report" though, tucked in among all the crimes, is a little piece about the Russians testing a new missile. Naturally this peaked my curiosity.
We have known for some time that the Russians - by their own admission - had a missile that would negate the Americans' Star Wars system.
Lamprecht, of course, sees nothing less than a full scale attack on America as being behind the latest move and froths on about the need to nuke Europe. Yes, he too is a victim of the "Commies are coming and they're going to kill us all" diet.
He seems to forget the naked agression of the Americans towards the Soviets, from right back to the Russian revolution in 1917 the US, like they did in Iraq, planted evidence, made up stories, entrapped, created false evidence, and basically lied in their efforts to keep their enemy. The west was bombarded with stories of collusion between the Red Chinese and the Soviets, the Cubans, the huge plans of world domination. Entire generations of American children practiced drills in case the Commies dropped the bomb on them. The McCarthy witchhunts were indeed a dark time in American history.
I don't suppose that anyone growing up in this climate of constant brainwashing can be expected to be objetctive in viewing the lastest advances in Russian military technology. Yes, the Russians devloped their own nukes, and thank God for that. Since the fall of the Soviets we've seen the naked agression of an unchecked America and it's not pretty. So if the Russians want to keep up with the latest American technology and develop their own answer to it, I, for one, am quite relieved.
I notice Lampercht doesn't once question why the Americans might need nukes. Maybe he thinks the rest of the world should just leave themselves defenceless and learn to say "Yes Baas" to the Americans.
Comments:
I've read this guy's shit on rense, they'll publish any crap on there.
 
I think this is a misunderstanding of Jan Lamprecht. While a cursory glance at his comments does in fact leave the impression that he excessively blames the Black run government in general for the problems of the artificial British colonial created state known as "South Africa" (which in fact still financially run & controlled by Western Europe & run as a neo colonial enclave), the fact of the matter is that ever since the extremist ANC (with a governing coalition with the SACP & the COSATU but controlled by the remnants of the London based British imperialists & the offshoots of the Round Table of Cecil Rhodes) regime was put into power by the Western powers (what ever happened to the notion putting in place Black MODERATES who would look out for the well being of the PEOPLE & not the London plutocrats?) the colonial State known as South Africa has been in a quick & steady economic & political decline. -which appears to be all part of the agenda of those who maneuvered the ANC into power.

The fact of the matter is that the current extremist regime (which is just the racial & ideological flip side of the former White regime) (the fomer political party of Aparthied: the National Party has even joined the ANC when the New National Party disbanded recently & its members became ANC members) has ignored the growing crime problem (even letting criminals out of prison), ignored the growing AIDS crisis to the point of even denying the link between HIV & AIDS (can you imagine the howls of protest if the former White rulers had the nerve to do that?), ignored the growing genocide of Boer farmers which Genocide Watch has called a genocide under the Genocide Convention / & has employed deleterious race based quota systems (reported as "worse than during the Apartheid era") which ensure the continued failure of the State to remedy matters - not that the State should have a monopoly on providing solutions), by denying the best qualified if they happen to belong to the wrong race (wasn't Apartheid abolished?) or even from the government functioning at a competent level.

The point Lamprecht appears to constantly make is that the "country" (it is in fact a mini-empire consisting of nations such as the Boers, Zulus, Griquas, Xhosas, Tswanas, Sothos, Pedi etc not to mention the largest Indian population outside of India & other groups) was better run under White & prior colonial rule. While his point is a credible observation in light of recent developments, he does tend to neglect the underlying causes for the disparity which ironically has a lot to do with the remnants of the colonial power he avers. For any faults Lamprecht might have, his site is still an informative & iconoclastic news service which serves to illustrate that the problems in South Africa did not just go away when the Western media interest in the "country" (mini-empire run nominally by a Xhosa elite backed by London capital) did.

Furthermore: I also do not think that it is intellectually honest to paint Lamprecht as a racist as he is not opposed to Black empowerment or improvement & is even willing to work with Black people -as he has in the past- in order to improve both South Africa & Zimbabwe as well as Africa in general. He does however appear to have racial chauvinist or paternalistic views -in that he appears to believe that White people "naturally" outperform Black people based on the selected observations he provides- but one must remember that in Africa: White people are a minority & face increasing discrimination / dispossession & government repression.

A place now where the achievements & contributions of White people are marginalized & even outright blamed without critical anaylisis of the assertion. I think Lamprecht is in fact mainly coming from this angle (as a member of an increasingly oppressed minority being disfavoured by the regime -as the regime's Xhosacentric policies demonstrate where even in the Northern Cape -home of the mixed race Afrikaans speaking Griquas: it is government policy for the police forces to be filled with Xhosas!) rather than a hostile anti Black one. Quite reminiscent of the exasperation that American minorities have expressed at the past & even present indifference the State (one again the State should not be cast in a Messianic role of deliverance) has had with regard to their long struggle & plight. It is a sad fact of reality that minorities in any macro State tend to be marginalized & scapegoated for the problems which occur within its artificial borders. Regimes find it easier to blame those who are not part of their group or elect than to accept responsibility for their own dishonest & corrupt actions.

As for the criticism of Rense.com. I would refrain from petulantly describing the information on it as " crap" as when one actually takes the time to read what is posted ones finds that much of the information can lead to a much required expansion of consciousness -even from those whose rants can be described as biased (in any direction or sense) or outrageous. There is intellectual merit in becoming exposed to differing & unique view points.

The point of Rense.com is not to post "anything" but to inform the reader through the exposure to differing even outrageous points of view which are neglected in other outlets. Jeff Rense strives to provide the widest array of information on his web site in order to expose his readers (& listeners of his radio show) to the widest array of news & opinion as possible as a healthy alternative -it is important to be aware of other people's view points- & counter to the constant barrage of distortions & lies of the mainstream news media which almost single handedly by themselves sold the American public on a war against the country of Iraq based on now ADMITTED false intelligence. Jeff Rense's site has been instrumental in exposing the corrupt & fascist agenda of the ruling elite & the plutocratic regimes which are striving to build a macro global fascist state. Rense.com is one of the few alternative news sites on the web which truly challenges the monopoly of information -& disinformation- / ideas & bias of the intellectually vapid mainstream press.
 
Factoid. On this date: Feb 23 1854 the British signed the Orange River Convention with the Boers who were living between the Orange & Vaal Rivers recognizing the independence of the Boers living there which thus created the Orange Free State. This Boer Republic was later conquered & defeated by the British Empire on May 31 1902 after the second Anglo-Boer War & the deaths of at least 27 000 Boer civilians in the British concentration camps. This act genocide (small scale or otherwise) wiped out a generation of the Boers' children as most of the camp deaths were children under the age of sixteen. The Orange Free State was dragged into the war as a result of the political & military pact the Orange Free State made with the Transvaal Republic also called the South African Republic prior to the outbreak of the war.
 
To second anonymous - you left out blaming the Illuminati, Masons, Carlyle groups and Castro.
I think the point the blogger is making is quite right. Lamprecht loses his point when he keeps on howling BLACK BLACK BLACK BLACK BLACK.
He forgets that during the Afrikaner rule of South Africa that Afrikaners were given preference in government jobs. Take a look at what the railways was like, the government teaching posts and others. He forgets to mention that 80 percent of the population was cut off from resources, unable to open businesses and subjected to a tyranical rule of beatings and killings to "keep them in their place".
He doesn't need to cry BLACK BLACK, people know. And as the blogger says, pointing out terrible crimes committed by BLACKS just loses the plot.
People see it for what it is, blatant racism. Does he every point out when white men murder their families? No. It's as if that never happens. And we know that it does.
His views are completely unbalanced and he continues to shoot himself in the foot. I reckon plenty of expat south africans would love to unite and "do something" to regain a stake in that country, but associated with a foaming at the mouth idiot like that isn't going to do it.
 
Well for one thing it is erroneous to "blame" in itself the Illuminati & the other groups connected with the global ruling elites & plutocrats since their power would not exist if it were not for the fact that most of us (in one form or another) support them or at least acquiesce in the face of their agendas & power.

One again: While Lamprecht does focus too much on race, remember that he is obviously expressing frustration at the marginalization of the local White people & other minorities (which includes the mixed race so called Coloureds, Indians, numerous smaller Bantu groups & even the large Zulu group as well as the various White peoples) by what he views as the comparatively lack luster results from the new ruling regime & caste which are allowing the region to regress into the stone age.

Well the reason as to why the so called Afrikaners (who are in fact a coalition of White Western Cape Afrikaans speakers & the comparatively smaller number of Boers of Voortrekker descent as well a number of English speakers) were given preference in government jobs was due to the socialist nature of the Apartheid laws which included job reservation for them -in contravention to the principles of the free market- as well as the fact that South Africa proper was considered back then (due to the
nature of the said laws) "a White person's country". Remember: there were in fact self governing "homelands" which were built around the main & densest Bantu settlements where the reaches of Horizontal Apartheid did not affect the people therein. Certainly not in the same manner as those who were living in the "townships" outside of the main cites in White run South Africa proper.

< He forgets to mention that 80 percent of the population was cut off from resources, unable to open businesses and subjected to a tyranical rule of beatings and killings to "keep them in their place". >

This was true for those living within the so called White areas, but as I pointed out: there did indeed exist self governing states for a number of the most densely populated Bantu areas. As a matter of fact the Transkei, Ciskei, Bophuthatswana & Venda were all independent states which were though only recognized by South Africa & amongst one another. But the fact is that at least there was an "escape" for those Black people who found life unbearable in the townships surrounding the White cities.

The main problem though was that many of these urbanized Black people could not always simply go back home as the homelands did not always provide the same opportunites as the homeland economies were no where near as strong & vibrant as the ones within the White reseved areas.

The Transkei was slightly larger than Lesotho (Lesotho was the Bantustan that the British created for the Sotho in 1966) which was its northern neighbour & the Transkei was the most contiguous independent Black state. The President of the Transkei even negotiated successfully with Pretoria & the government of South Africa for more land. In fact a number of people in the Apartheid government were considering truncating the size of White administered South Africa & enlarging the lands of the self governing & independent Black states in order to maintain the self determination (such as it was since the Boers & the English speakers were certainly no where near as self determined or in political control as the Afrikaners were) that they were exercising in the macro State of South Africa proper.

Though since the various Black nations / groups were only given about 13 % of the total land mass of the South African State, it was not as equitable as it could have been.

On an intersting note: White people required passes in the self governing & independent Black homelands the same way that the Black people required passes in the White areas. The latter scenario was of course more widely known throughout the world though due to the significant internal opposition & protests against it - not to mention the sometimes violent government backlash / repression within South Africa proper.

Too bad a more equitable land redistribution plan could not have occurred since if it could have, then the various Black groups would no doubt have been better off without their current shackling to the White run (& European backed) economies which is prolonging their poverty. As well as being free from the current tribal rivalries: namely the notible Xhosa vs Zulu division which is a major force in modern South African politics. Particularly when considering that the Zulus are the largest ethnic group in the RSA but the Xhosas are running the show. Not something the proud & historically significant Zulus like very much.

The so called Coloured peoples would have been better off in a dispensation of their own as the often quoted lament of theirs is that under the White run government "we were not White enough & now we are not Black enough". (though in reality they are a mix of White / Khoi / Indian / Malay / Mozambican).

The Boer farmers who are being attacked & killed in increasing numbers would also no doubt have been better off if they were to have regained some form of reconstituted Boer Republic (which were taken from them by the British) which oddly enough the Apartheid State were adamantly dead set against -likely because the State did not want to lose any part of their electorate or constituents even if a significant number were no longer supporters of the then ruling regime. The Boers initially tried to regain the independence of their republics during the 1914 Rebellion. Then again some time later under some militant paramilitary groups which only seemed to work against their cause due to the extremist nature of the said groups.

While then President P W Botha recognized a number of Bantu nations / groups & their right to independence, it was ironic when he would not recognize the right of the Boers to the same "homeland" independence that he allowed to the other groups.

The Ciskei, KwaZulu & Bophuthatswana formed an alliance with some conservative Boers & Afrikaners in the early 1990s in order to stop the ANC from coming to power. No doubt due in large part to the fact that
the independence of their states would be soon reversed when they would be reintegrated into the colonial macro State of South Africa as well as the fact that these groups tended to share a conservative & Capitalist outlook which they felt was threatened by the comming new dispensation.

< He doesn't need to cry BLACK BLACK, people know. And as the
blogger says, pointing out terrible crimes committed by BLACKS just loses the plot. >

The main point of his reports & comments is that the current regime is going all out in eradicating the self sufficiency of South Africa. Let's not lose the plot here. It matters not that the current regime is mainly Black (though only nominally as the State is run by the European elite through its trade / economic policies / NGOs / fiat currency / elite point people & others links), what matters (& is the main & redeeming point Lamprecht makes through the relating of the news articles he posts) is that the current regime is aiming at creating a mass genocide through their policies.

Think about it. The econony is being set up for a huge fall. The new Apartheid policies inaugurated as Affirmative Action & BEE will cripple the economy which is precisely what the plan is. The Boer farmers who are being driven from their historic lands in what appears to be organized political acts will soon enough lead to & cause mass starvation as they are the breadbasket of the entire region. The government's denial of drugs & treatments for those suffering from AIDS will lead to a massive population decline. The soaring crime rate -which the government covers up by refusing to release statistics & which the government incites & enables through the constant release of prisoners & their near total lack of prosecuting offenders- is scaring off foreign investment. These are all ingredients for a mass genocide of the South African population.

The main reason why the ANC was brought to power was because the British based segment of the Global elite was finding it difficult to control the Republic of South Africa when it was under the control of the Afrikaner regime -which ironically was initially put into power by the same elite as a surrogate colonial power for the British Empire in the first place- & wanted to continue the genocidal policies they had initiated during the nineteenth century but were trumped when the standard of living for all of the country's races was going up during the 1960s & 1970s.

This was the main reason for their sudden reversal of once supporting & initially implementing Apartheid (remember the British inaugurated the first segregationist laws & pass laws & an influencial English speaking progressive newspaper editor called Apartheid "intellectually acceptable" during the 1960s) as the British based ruling elite realized that the population was growing & becoming too independent & prosperous.

The Rand: the South African currency was even too strong for their liking. The British Global elite began to oppose Apartheid not because of the excesses of the system & its political & ecomonic repression, but because the system stood in the way of their control of the country's resources & their plan to impoverish & decimate the peoples therein in order to have easier access to the said resources.

< I reckon plenty of expat south africans would love to unite and "do something" to regain a stake in that country, >

I think ex patriots would be better off in just exposing the madness of the current government & its affiliations with the Global Fascists.

< but associated with a foaming at the mouth idiot like that isn't going to do it. >

Well you should hear him on the radio -as when he appears on the Jeff Rense Radio Program- as he sounds so calm & different from the manner in which he writes. He writes strong opinions but he speaks calmly & in a matter of fact style in that classic (at times hard to follow) South African English / Rhodesian accent of his.

I think he just tends to write when he is frustrated at the growing disasterous policies of the regime but in reality he appears to be rather levelheaded. It must be nerve racking to live as moving visible target as a "disfavoured minority" in a crime ridden society which is being targeted for total destruction. I wonder how you would be like if you were in his place.

While he is likely a descendent at least in part from the those who either accompanied Cecil Rhodes' British South Africa Company or from those Boers who crossed the Limpopo during the late nineteenth cent -he sure though does not speak with a Boer / Afrikaner accent even if some of his ancestors might have done so in the past.
 
Anon @ 9:04
To say your view is slanted is an understatement.
80% of the population were given a small amount of land with no resources under puppet governments chosen and administered by Pretoria.
Let's understand that first of all.
Secondly, these were South Africans... yet you think they are lucky that they could "escape" from the townships to ... nothing.
And you don't see anything wrong with that. That tells me a whole lot.
I suppose Hendrik Verwoerd was just a benefactor who wanted to spare all those black kids the boredom of having to go to school.
The homelands were a joke. A place where the boerseuns could go to do the things the government didn't want them to do in South Africa. They exiled the majority of the population without their consent, without their input, without so much as "by your leave" and now they're whining that this government is doing the same thing.
Don't talk to me about Indians. Let me tell you about the forced removals from Cato Manor in KwaZulu Natal. Families kicked out of their homes and off their lands, removed to other areas - no matter how far out of town - so that Whites could have their land. Only when it was discovered that there was a major fault that ran through the area and it wasn't too safe to risk white skins there, where the Coolies (oh, sorry the Indians) allowed back.
If it hadn't been for Gandhi and his resolve the Indians would have been in exactly the same boat as the blacks were.
How dare you lump them together with the whites. How many Indians were allowed on to the "white" beaches?
Want to talk about the coloureds? They were also forced into their own areas, moved around, despised by both major ethnic groups and completely marginalised.
And the homeland idea was just another means of stealing the resources that should have belonged to all south africans.
That is where I really respect Mangosuthu Buthelezi in that he refused to bow to that little scheme.
Let's understand something else. The Zulu are the largest indigenous nation and, sadly, the majority of them voted ANC.
Even HRH Goodwill Zwelethini supported ANC.
Believe me when I tell you the ANC (and I never thought I would ever be defending them) are by no means extremist. You forget that the PAC was their equivalent of the boeremag.
I would debate "economic" decline with you. The economy of South Africa appears to be quite robust and there is a huge amount of development going on. Yes it's no longer paradise for the whites but generally speaking progress is being made.
What is happening in south africa is what was bound to happen. The days of white supremacy couldn't continue. Do you have any understanding of the amount of violence that had to take place on a daily basis just to maintain that status quo?
It's not intellectually honest to call Lamprecht a racist???
Let me see... he never reports crimes by whites. I lose count of the number of times he uses the word "black" in any of his comments. He always portrays the white afrikaners as the long-suffering upstanding members of the community who never asked for more than a fair chance. (My furry butt.)
Yes, I noted how willing we was to work with blacks - i.e. employ them as labourers while the whites are the baas - noted in his plan for the future.
I will admit that I have not read everything on his website, but I personally have not seen a single item that portrays blacks in a positive light.
Don't kid yourself that life was even fair among white south africans when the Afrikaner regime was at its height. It was not. Government employees didn't get beyond a certain level unless they belonged to the broederbond.
Yes, the crime is terrible. Yes mistakes are being made. (Have you noticed the major errors happening in the US? As people there keep on telling me...governments make mistakes.) Yes affirmative action is a bad idea, but it worked for the Afrikaners, so perhaps in 40 years time it will work for all South Africans.
Yes the whites are being marginalized. If they don't like it...they need to get out - if they can. I know that is not easy. But they need to be realistic.
For whites, in South Africa, it's "Game Over". You don't need to be a genius to see that.
Some snap answers to your comments...
"what ever happened to the notion putting in place Black MODERATES who would look out for the well being of the PEOPLE & not the London plutocrats?" I think it's what they call DEMOCRACY - see above.
"The country was better run under White & prior colonial rule." Yeah, specially if you were lucky enough to be born white. Not so hot if you happened to be born black, though.
"I think he just tends to write when he is frustrated at the growing disasterous policies of the regime but in reality he appears to be rather levelheaded. It must be nerve racking to live as moving visible target as a "disfavoured minority" in a crime ridden society which is being targeted for total destruction. I wonder how you would be like if you were in his place." I've been there. My family is there. I know what it feels like. I don't wish that on anyone.
 
Well first of all let's get something straight. I do not support Apartheid most especially the manner in which it was conducted in the old South Africa. The whole era was rather before my time. Did you not notice that I wrote that I wished they could have had a more equitable land distribution plan. I am well aware that the Apartheid system was an oppressive & unjust system. I am not in disagreement with you on this point in the least. The point I made that seems to have enraged you so much was that I noted that there at least were independent homelands from which the people could operate in without the daily effects of Horizontal Apartheid that was happening in the White areas. I am not condoning the manner in which the system ran, but the fact of the matter is that at least they had a chance to live under some form of self determination. You will note that I put the would "escape" in quotes / parenthesis, but thanks so much so distorting what I said. I thought that I was clear that the "escape" was relative only to the fact that they were not in the same boat as those who were still living in the townships. I am aware that they functioned much like satellite states around South Africa proper & that Pretoria had some control of them, but do not forget that they were independent enough to have been a real problem for Pretoria when the governments there chose to do so. Especially the ones which were given outright independence such as: the Transkei, the Ciskei, Bophuthatswana & Venda. If those independent homelands had pushed harder on Pretoria concerning the conditions of those living in the townships: progress could have been made sooner. If their economies were to have been built up with easier access to resources the situation would have turned around, but what you conveniently forget is that the ruling elite never wanted this to happen & still do not want this to happen. The same people who ran South Africa since its inception -on behalf of racist British Imperialists who aimed at first destroying the identities of the various peoples / nations by making forcing them without their consent under the single administration of a centralized government directed from Britain- & all through the Apartheid era are the same people who are still running the South African State! This is the a very serious matter & no amount of rehashing the past which change this fact.

No. The various peoples had their own independent identities long before the British imperialists began calling them "South Africans". It is ridiculous & offensive to call anyone a South African as the term is a colonial construct as it comes from the colonial State which was imposed upon all of the peoples without their consent who found themselves living under it, but for some reason you justify this injustice by outrageously asserting that there was no problem with everyone being labeled a denizen of this "South African" colonial British imperial controlled racist State. Do you not remember that before the right wing British imperialists came onto the scene that the various nation & kingdoms were independent? The Zulus & the Xhosas were still independent before the British conquered them. The Boers & Griquas in the north were also once independent before being conquered. So do not talk about South Africans when it is nothing but a colonial term which has no meaning or significance as it is open to interpretation & is based on nothing but the term the British Imperialists imposed onto all of the peoples they conquered. Never forget that! Calling all of the varied & diverse people South Africans plays right into the trap that was laid by their very oppressors.

The fact of the matter is that the artificial British Imperialist entity known as South Africa still exists in the same form as it was built by its White racist creators. Remember: the laws are only the symptoms of the State. This is why South Africa is still an oppressive State (along with all other States) as the State has a monopoly on power. The political corner stone of Apartheid: the South Africa Act (implemented by the British Parliament in 1909) has never been repealed. The South Africa Act has been transferred to the various Constitution Acts but has never been repealed as the plutocrats benefit from the existence of a South African State (which is a mini-empire for them & direct by them) & their continuing plundering of South Africa's resources.

< I suppose Hendrik Verwoerd was just a benefactor who wanted to spare all those black kids the boredom of having to go to school. >

Well as I understand it: the educational system within the independent homelands -even within some of the self governed ones- were light years ahead of the ones being used within the townships. Once again: I am not endorsing the old repressive system. In fact if you do some research the first thing you would discover was that Hendrik Verwoerd was not from South Africa but in fact was from Holland. He grew up in the emerging Cape based Afrikaner designation (which was the British's way of creating a surrogate ruling class that would administer their South African empire despite the outward "anti-British" rhetoric the Afrikaner nationalists used for public consumption in order to win elections). The ruling elite are notorious for planting their own seed amongst various countries & manipulating them to become leaders looking out for their (the foreign plutocrats) interests in the places they have been sent to. This is also the reason as to why virtually every single United States President has been related to one another. Remember: even Bush & Kerry are cousins.

For further reading visit: Bush, Kerry & Hefner: Odd Cousins.

Visit the geneological page concerning this matter here.

Remember also that Nelson Mandela is from the Thembu Royal family & was being groomed to be a Chieftan before he moved to Johannesburg. The global elite are from Royal lineages & tend to use the Royal Lineage of the cultures they conquer to act as their proxy in ruling their States.

< The homelands were a joke. A place where the boerseuns could go to do the things the government didn't want them to do in South Africa. They exiled the majority of the population without their consent, without their input, without so much as "by your leave" and now they're whining that this government is doing the same thing. >

The homelands certainly left a lot to be desired, but they were better than living in the townships where one had little prospects of advancement. Furthermore: you conveniently forget that the State of South Africa was imposed onto the various populations without their consent either stripping them of their independence that they all had prior to the various British invasions. The fact that the Transkei wants to become the tenth province does not mean that they are "whining" for the government to do the "same" thing as the Apartheid one did.

I am well aware of the forced removals that occurred. I am in no way justifying them in the least. One again I refer you back to my statement concerning a how I wished that the government had implemented a "more equitable land redistribution" plan. The Separate Development aspect & phase of Apartheid was a clumsy attempt at decolonization. The problem though was that most of the White people had no where to go as they had been in Southern Africa for 350 years now.

< removed to other areas - no matter how far out of town - so that
Whites could have their land. >

Do not forget that this worked both ways as well. The large German population in the Eastern Cape was expelled from their home & removed to other areas in order to give the Ciskei more land.

From: The Kaffraria Germans.



The implementation of the Group Areas Act, one of the corner stones of the Apartheid Policy, was the final blow for a separate German community in the Eastern Cape. To reduce contact between race groups in South Africa, every group was to be given its own separate piece of land. While the Eurpoeans received by far the most and the best land, they did lose some areas to other groups. One such area was that part of the Eastern Cape which later became the Ciskei. As this was where the first two groups of Germans had been settled, their land was expropriated by the government. All remaining Germans had to move down into the main towns, and as a result, a separate German community in the Eastern Cape ceased to exist.




< where the Coolies (oh, sorry the Indians) allowed back. >

This tells me a lot about you. I used to come across this term from time to time in my research & had no idea what it meant. The fact that people associated with prejudice have used this derogatory term in the past does not justify its use under any conditions or circumstances.

< If it hadn't been for Gandhi and his resolve the Indians would have been in exactly the same boat as the blacks were. How dare you lump them together with the whites. How many Indians were allowed on to the "white" beaches? >

Uh What are you talking about? I did not "lump them together" with White people. I fail to see what your point is. I am well aware of Gandhi's important role in fighting for the protection of rights of the Indians in Natal. This is a very important part of South African history. Remember also that he was inspired to fight for the Indians back in India proper (who were under a more direct rule of British colonialism) from this experience & also even in part from the Boer struggle against British colonialism earlier -even though he was working then for the British at the time of the war.

< Want to talk about the coloureds? They were also forced into their own areas, moved around, despised by both major ethnic groups and completely marginalised. >

This is exactly my point. I do not disagree with this at all.

< And the homeland idea was just another means of stealing the resources that should have belonged to all south africans. >

This is right, but what you do not seem to realize is that this situation is still continuing to this day! This is the reason why the macro State of South Africa still exists in its current form & why the European powers are still in control of the region. This is all about their continued stealing of the region's resources. Furthermore: this situation is not unique to South Africa. Just look at what is going on in Venezuela & even Iraq. As a matter of fact most Americans are also robbed by the same global elite of the resources with should belong to them. But the elite view States as their own private & personal fiefdoms in which they steal the resources & have the people extricate them through cheap labour & certainly by paying them a lot less them they deserve for doing the real work.

< That is where I really respect Mangosuthu Buthelezi in that he refused to bow to that little scheme. >

I agree. In fact Buthelezi was once serious considered to be the first Black President of South Africa until the Western media began portraying him as a "dangerous nationalist" likely because he also would not go along with the Plutocrats continued stealing of resources. Mandela on the other hand did go along with their plan which is why he was promoted a given the job of overseeing the plutocrats South African empire for one term. This however still does not negate the role he played in promoting racial tolerance & reconciliation.

< Let's understand something else. The Zulu are the largest indigenous nation and, sadly, the majority of them voted ANC. >

I am well aware. In fact it appears that this was the main reason for the unofficial civil wars that have been going on among them. Though I think it was not a "majority". It is more evenly split.

< Even HRH Goodwill Zwelethini supported ANC. Believe me when I tell you the ANC (and I never thought I would ever be defending them) are by no means extremist. >

O but they are extreme in the sense that they are continuing the policy of stealing of the regions resources for the European plutocrats (whose antecedents created the colonial construct of South Africa). They are also extreme because they enact of type of Black supremacism (Xhosa mostly) through there discriminatory practices which are reminiscent of the previous Apartheid rulers.

< You forget that the PAC was their equivalent of the boeremag. >

No I did not forget. I know that they are even more extreme, but at least they are honest enough to admit their anti White position. The ANC tends to be more subtle & use code words. As for the so called Boeremag -no one really known what that is. The authorities are still trying to determine what it is or was. It has come out that the group is likely a front group created to give the impression that the government in under threat by a terrorist group. Much the same way that the Al Qaeda was created to to give the impression that the United States is under threat from terrorism when it is apparently being driven by the plutocrats who control the American government.

See: Was the entire "Boeremag coup" pre-programmed by security agents ?

A whole dissertation can be written on how regimes use the threat of terrorism in order to restrict rights & demonize groups that governments deem a threat to their continued monoply on power.

< I would debate "economic" decline with you. The economy of South Africa appears to be quite robust and there is a huge amount of development going on. Yes it's no longer paradise for the whites but generally speaking progress is being made. >

The fact of the matter is that the economy as well as the economies all through much of the world are living on borrowed time. The South African economy in particular is being set up for a massive crash. It will not be able to function for much longer as they chase away professionals & foreign investment & continue to let the Rand plummet. The point I made was that the economy is not "paradise" (to use your term) for anyone. The longer the economy is connected to the very plutocrats who are exploiting it the more severe the crash will be. Just look at what happened in Argentina in the recent past.

< Do you have any understanding of the amount of violence that had to take place on a daily basis just to maintain that status quo? >

I am well aware & found this fact absolutely disgusting. This was the direct result of the horizontal features of Apartheid within South Africa proper. I for one do not know why the Apartheid regime simply did not just "internationalize" the main cities -like Johannesburg as a prime example- since the much of the government repression was based on attempting to maintain a segregated existence in areas that could never be truly segregated & never were segregated in a number of cases. The regime should have allowed at least Johannesburg & even other major cities to have been a legal multi racial region.

< It's not intellectually honest to call Lamprecht a racist??? >

No because he is not against Black people. Nor I have ever read anything in which he claims that their repression is required. He is just impatient with them as he judges them to a European standard. What he does point out though is that the current state of affairs is just as bad for them as well since the government is not only not delivering, but they are -as I pointed out- continuing the economic exploitive polices of the past.

Lamprecht tens to judge things based on a false or limited paradigm that Colonialism was beneficial for Africa while negating or ignoring the horrors which went with it.

Colonialism even affected White peoples such as the Boers. Just look at how they were left to die in concentration camps all because they stood in the way of the British Empire. I offer no excuse for Lamprecht's rose coloured view on this matter. I am just pointing out that this positive view appears to be the basis of why he avers colonialism so much.

< Let me see... he never reports crimes by whites. >

He does when it is particularly portrayed in the press. It is not as if he is denying the flip side of the equation. At any rate: the White peoples (it is incorrect for both you & him to write "Whites" or "Blacks" -as the term implies objectification & is far too simplistic as term to use for a region which is full of different groups with race but a superficial label) are being targeted much more than other groups.

< I lose count of the number of times he uses the word "black" in any of his comments. He always portrays the white afrikaners as the long-suffering upstanding members of the community who never asked for more than a fair chance. (My furry butt.) >

Well this is getting into some real complicated territory now. Remember: it is not fair to lump all of the White Afrikaans speakers into the same boat. For one thing they are split along cultural lines which the Afrikaner nationalists were never really able to unite. There are those from the Western Cape who tend to be neo colonial & it was they who controlled the Afrikaner designation. On behalf of the British ruling elite no less. There were those who were more progressive minded who did not subscribe to Afrikaner nationalism as all. Then there were those who still considered themselves Boers (as they were not co-opted into the Afrikaner label) & who felt marginalized & usurped by the Afrikaners & refused to give up their culture & even -among some- drive for independence. The Boers as you might recall fought against the creation of South Africa when they fought two wars against the British when they were still independent in their own internationally recognized republics.

It is for this reason that the Afrikaners tried so hard to eradicate Boer culture & history as Boer independence threatened the integrity of the South African State / mini-empire- which was placed into the hands of the Cape based Afrikaners the British created to over see their business.

The fact that the old South African flag the Afrikaner government adopted in 1927 was an almost identical version of the one by the Dutch East India Company during the 1600s was a huge symbolic ad calling attention to the true masters of the South African State. Remember: the Dutch East India Company along with the British East India Company was run by the ruling elite & the antecedents of the current ruling elite.

Comparison of the flags.

The Dutch East India Company.

Page with the VOC logo on the VOC flag.

The Dutch East India Company flag was exactly the same as the old national flag of South Africa with the difference that the VOC flag had the VOC logo in it while the old South African flag had the 3 flags logo of Britain / the Orange Free State / the Transvaal Republic in the center.

On an intersting note: the new South African flag has elements of both the British flag & the Dutch flag. (also elements of local royal colours too). The left portion design is similar to the Union Jack of Britain while the horizontal bars of chili red / orange, white & blue are reminiscent of the Dutch flag.

The creator Fred Brownell (who also designed the Namibian flag) claims it has no meaning but it looks like a calling card of the ruling caste which created the State. Remember: even the United States national flag is in fact a replica of the old British East India Company flag. Their symbols are still here because the old systems are still in control.

< Yes, I noted how willing we was to work with blacks - i.e. employ them as labourers while the whites are the baas - noted in his plan for the future. >

This was a most regrettable outlook on his part but he genuinely believes that the West could only trust a White regime & that only they could get things done. At any rate: he was only talking about the area which would be under White control. Which would not be very much at any rate. He obviously fails to see that his plan could lead to a miniature version of Apartheid particularly if these labourers decide to settle as they did en mass in Johannesburg & other places. The Apartheid in South Africa got started by similar labour practices.

< (Have you noticed the major errors happening in the US? As people there keep on telling me...governments make mistakes.) >

I have noticed indeed. Did you not read my first post in which I noted the manner in which they along with the help of the mainstream press sold the American public on a war based on false intelligence. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The United States as just as much under the control of the European based plutocrats as is South Africa / Australia / Canada & a number of other places.

< affirmative action is a bad idea, but it worked for the Afrikaners, >

No. It only worked for those who could not make in the free market. Remember it helped those who were afraid of competing with the other groups in an open market, but I have a feeling that even without Apartheid that a significant number of White people would have still made it mainly as a result of better opportunities which were not & are still not as available to the non White populations. Just as in Mexico where they have never had official Apartheid policies but where most of their political & business leaders of still White while the indigenous Metizo population does not recieve the same benifits. Or look at Mauritania where there are similar racial disparities where the White Maurs (this is what they are called even though they are really a Berber / Arab mix) control the political & economic relam & prevent the indigenous Africans from participation.

< so perhaps in 40 years time it will work for all South Africans. >

This assertion is wrong on many levels. For one thing this constant tit for tat will never stop the discrimination spiral. Furthermore: States are inherently prone to discrimination & promoting only those that the rulers of the day see as the elect. Also: in 40 years time there will not even be a South Africa as the plutocrats will have most like so completely exhausted the country's resources & have depopulated the region that the State will collapse as a result of its own defunct inertia. In 40 years time: it will be a miracle if there are even any people still left. The elite have a massive population elimination plan for the whole world as a matter of fact.

< For whites, in South Africa, it's "Game Over". You don't need to be a genius to see that. >

There are a few problems with this racist statement. First of all the point is that it is "game over" for all of South Africa's people! This is the point that you seem to keep missing. The current situation is designed to enact a mass genocide against the whole South African population. This is the reason why the farmers are being killed & why the exploitive economic polices are being continued under this regime. Without farmers the people will starve. Without economic independence the economy will crash. Remember these things. Furthermore: to presume that only the White people must "get out" says a lot about you & neglects to mention that there are White people there who are indigenous to the region such as the Boers who germinated as a nation on the expanding Cape frontier long before their first encounter with a local Bantu group while trekking eastward & who have been internationally recognized as being independent in their own former republics during the past.

< I think it's what they call DEMOCRACY - see above. >

O K so when is it going to happen? When will democracy finally come? Don't insult the reader's intelligence by asserting that the current oligarchal ruling regime somehow embraces democracy! What happened to all of those people wearing the Democratic Alliance t-shirts? What happened to all those DA & other political party supporters? Did they all suddenly decide to stay home on election day? Not likely! We all saw how large their supporters were on the various news reports yet after the results they only officially received 12 % of the vote with the ANC getting a preposterous 70 % of the vote! Democracy!? Don't make us laugh! Too few people support the ANC to warrant that ridiculous result.

Was Progressive Party member (the only member of Parliament opposed to Apartheid) & anti Apartheid icon Helen Suzman right when she stated in 2004 that there was MORE democracy under Apartheid?

The fact of the matter is that "democracy" is a fraud in most countries.

Debate is almost non-existent and no one is apparently accountable to anybody apart from their political party bosses. It is bad news for democracy in this country. Even though we didn't have a free press under apartheid, the government of that day seemed to be very much more accountable in parliament.

From: Suzman: Mbeki anti-white.

< The country was better run under White & prior colonial rule." Yeah, specially if you were lucky enough to be born white. >

First of all you are quoting the Lamprecht's assessment. I did not post it as my own assessment. I am a long time vocal opponent of colonialism ( in case you did not notice) & of White rule of macro South Africa. I was stating what Lamprecht's beliefs are as he has stated in the past the he thinks colonialism was good & that the country was better off under White rule - I would beg to differ, but I did note however that the old regime did manage to pull the economy up to the point of angering the plutocratic owners who wanted to (as they are doing now) bankrupt the State & more fully exploit & plunder its resources.

< I've been there. My family is there. I know what it feels like. I don't wish
that on anyone. >

Then why in the world would you defend the status quo? The new dispensation is just a new dress on an old oppressive structure. See above concerning the fact that the colonial constructed South African state has not been abolished & is still serving its original purpose of disenfranchising the people & plundering the region's resources.

The old oligarchal ruling class exploiters elite based in Europe which created the artificial colonial construct of South Africa to serve them as their mini-empire have not gone away! The current regime serves them even better than the Apartheid regime. It was the main reason for the overthrow of the Apartheid regime as the servants of this elite -the Afrikaner rulers- started to forget who the true rulers were & have been replaced by those who are serving their interests even better.

Pointing out the current disaster is not to say that it was so great in the past as I know that it was not. But remember: just as the White people were living under a false sense of progress so too now are those who were disenfranchised in the past.
 
Why defend what's there now?
I don't defend it. I see it as inevetable. History has shown us over and over and over the way this will go. I'm just not surprised.
No, that's not true. I'm surprised that every white in South Africa has not had their throats cut. And I attribute that to Mandela.
So maybe the eurocorps do have the upper hand right now. I doubt that will last very long. The government will probably nationalise resources and then sell out to the Asians.
 
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